New Tactics Revealed at the Town Halls

As posted at RIGHT MICHIGAN, it seems the left may have come up with a new method to dissuade participation of the “public” from attending, and ultimately “commenting” on such important topics as Health care, and the expected cramming of it down our throats like a bilge soaked tongue depressor.  The discovery of such things as:

  • Schedule smaller venues to control crowds.
  • Quietly invite as many supporters (union members, ACORN, BAMN, etc) as you can to try to sway popular opinion of the few who are able to get inside to your side of the issue.

And more..  Sorry.. I gave you just a teaser here.. Go to the full story for the rest as John Dingell closes his eyes to some other parts of his constituency

Oh.. and related.. another method as pointed out by Michelle Malkin, is to not show up at all.. Cowardly and unworthy.

This is the stuff you want to know about, but will not from the traditional news outlets. And the newpapers wonder why they are failing?

21 comments for “New Tactics Revealed at the Town Halls

  1. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 10:36 am

    So do you advocate for the disruptive tactics the Right uses? Does it serve the democratic process for angry mobs to shout down debate? What about Armey (clearly being paid by big med) and Freedomworks?

    Yeah, those sly libs are the ones trying to squealch debate. Jesus. Get a clue.

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 12:14 pm

      I advocate answers, and accountability. And while shying away from saying “those lefties do it, so its ok too” I would say the folks who have had genuine concerns and are being ignored or answered with form letters deserve to have their voices heard. It seems you side with those who wish to squelch debate?

  2. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 10:38 am

    The media is reporting on the disruptions. Your side is getting ample play. Too bad it’s all shouting and yelling and veins popping out of your temples and idiotic lines like “keep the gumbmint out of my medicare!!!”

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 12:16 pm

      “My Side” is using what ever methods to rattle through to the cerebral misfires going on in the mushy skulls of those in congress, and those who might actually support their efforts. Your “talking points” are noted.

  3. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 11:04 am

    You’re a putz.

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 12:23 pm

      Wow.. out of left field.

      This is how the left approaches solutions folks. I have not called this instructor from the upper peninsula names, and have also provided him a forum to voice his concerns, yet he WASTES the space and opportunity, and punishes me for his inability to intellectualize any further with a randomly generated insult.

      There are certainly lessons to be learned here, perhaps more than one might see at first glance. Welcome to “change.”

  4. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    my third message was left after my first two didn’t show up…okay, you’re not a putz 😉 just misinformed and horribly biased. hey, it’s an upgrade!

    and i’ve been called much much worse by you, my friend 😉 i seem to remember trying to carry on a health care conversation with you elsewhere and being called about every name in the book. not that i mind…just point out the pot/kettle thing.

    the irony is that many of these folks cash their social security checks on the way to yell about obama being a socialist. what’s the solution, then? premiums are going to average about $20k in the next few years at the current pace.

    oh, i forgot: simply reduce costs and add risks. that’s the solution. dump massive amounts into HSAs (lol). another brilliant idea.

    come on. where are the bright ideas? tort reform? that plays nice to the crazy base, too. trouble with that one is that tort costs are about 1 percent of total medical costs.

    we’ve had “socialized” medicine for decades. and socialized farming. and…you get the idea. your side doesn’t do itself any good in the credibility department by handing out firewater-type talking points and having the base go crazy and act like drunken fools.

    at least pretend you want to have a debate.

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 1:14 pm

      You said it none the less. In fact it was the kind of thing that got you banned from other places as well. As for being called much worse, please feel free to locate and I will explain if such an act is needed.

      Why is there Irony about the folks cashing social security checks, and asking their representatives to be …representative? And as for premiums, the reasons for premium increases result as a matter of excessive tort and government involvement. Imagine if we had REAL competition allowed across state lines? HSAs are a good idea, personal responsibility is another. And because you say tort reform plays nice to the crazy base, it does not mean anything. Your credibility is less than stellar based on your emotional outbursts because you didn’t get an automatic approval of your previous comments.

      As to already “socialized” parts of our economy already… I have to agree. I also recognize the unnatural effect it has on our economic state. I surely don’t want THAT component of it increased. Its done enough damage already.

      As to your understanding of “debate,” I will let the casual reader make their own Judgment.

  5. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    and every politician on in the united states–dem, republican, nazi, libertarian, whomever–uses form letters. stop having these double standards all the time. the irony is you’re bitching about dems holding townhall meetings. i mean, really ponder the IRONY of what you’re saying.

  6. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    bullshit i got banned for calling names. that’s a complete lie. on post #2 of 60+post thread on health care at rightmichigan you pulled out the name-calling and personal attacks.

    again, stop acting holier-than-thou about that. enough. ]

    now back to topic: tort reform wouldn’t bring any substantive change in rates. please re-read: that would account for 1 percent. now: that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen. but getting people all lathered about those damn lawyers is nothing but a red herring in this health care debate.

    walk into any party store or gas station and you’ll see signs for spaghetti dinners. and these are for people who HAVE health insurance but got seriously ill and found out their insurance covered shit.

    how many spaghetti dinners you’ve been to, gillman? how many people do you know who had one?

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 6:05 pm

      Put a link up so I don’t have to work so hard justifying YOUR own self indignation

      Show me 1 %. Show me where anything SAYS 1 % that isn’t a union shill site. As for red herrings, “organized tea party protesters..” stopping town halls.. think about that.. You might not understand itbecause you are FOR government intervention wherever possible, but believe or not, there are a great number of people who don’t want more govt run ANYTHING.

      Spaghetti? A few actually. Even in TC where times are good.. over the years.. people have trouble.

  7. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 1:31 pm

    i mean, hey, all of us have a narcissistic streak in us. it’s human nature. to what extent (i want to hoard everything i make or i’ll give a very little or i’ll give more) dictates where we fall on the political scale.

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 6:10 pm

      Actually, I like positive attention, but narcissism I pray is not one of my attributes. Though humility is honorable, I have yet to reach that as well though..

      But understand something. It is greed that drives invention. NOBODY says it better than Milton Friedman.

      Watch it and pay close attention just once, and your outlook might be altered forever.

  8. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 1:38 pm

    serious question: do you or nick or any of the bloggers get financial help to run these buses (or your blogs) to tea parties or is this something you do out of your own pocket for the love of the game?

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 6:21 pm

      I fully expect to spend over $1500 of my own money on this bus project. That is above and beyond what might be recoverable from the participants. From an investment standpoint, it is cheap compared to what my kids or your kids will pay if any more of this garbage proposed by congress is allowed to be furthered.

      Business is slow right now. I am eating away at my savings to promote this, and the causes of liberty. Its no game however, and I don’t love HAVING to do it.

      You might not have the same perspective because of any number of reasons, but I suspect you don’t want the unemployment numbers to increase, or more problems to befall our citizens, so I pay up front to attempt to put a little of my perspective out there. I only hope you will eventually see that growth of government and interference with free markets has never benefited us. I do it for you as well as for myself.

  9. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 6:40 pm

    Well, that’s fair enough then (re: buses to tea parties). If that be the case, I certainly respect you putting yourself out there at a personal sacrifice. I don’t agree with it–but I respect it.

    I feel there has been ample time given to the private sector to fix health care. Because by your own admission we’re all greedy (not sure I want to be watching Milton talk like that when Baby Jesus returns), there needs to be checks-and-balances to that. That’s where unions come in and, in this case, government intervention in the health care system as a watchdog mechanism for the run-amuck private sector.

    The hyperbole on both sides doesn’t get us any closer to being able to debate the meat of this thing, though. Ironically it’s probably only going to ensure the gop gets frozen out of things and the dems end up doing something on their own. I think bi-partisan is the way to go–but there’s been real attempts by the gop to want to do that other than derailing the entire thing (which just simply isn’t going to happen–no matter how many buses you and others like you rent out).

    Milton’s stuff reminds me of the poster showing the pyramids and the line about being able to do whatever you set your mind to do–if you’ve got an unlimited supply of expendable labor. How true–but apparently completely ethical, moral, and legal. The ends justify the means.

    Sorry, I don’t buy it. But I understand how such “honesty” helps a lot of people sleep well at night.

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 7:19 pm

      Friedman’s point is simply that YOU or ME or ANY OTHERS who utilize any advances created by man benefit from the motivation of reward. “Greed” as a word commonly used to describe self interest or self promotion.

      Checks and balances wouldn’t have been good on the development of the light bulb, or perhaps the development of such modern contrivances as the phone or computer.

      MEDICINES that have billions of dollars of research behind them and save countless lives, or make them better, might never exist if there were absolute limits on the profitability on such endeavors.

      As to the GOP.. I hope they vote against ALL matters brought up in the legislative chambers that limit our growth by imposing higher taxes, or undue rules. Let the left completely own the current plans, and the chips fall where they may. When all fails as it has consistently for the statists (when has being poor ever been cured by leftist plans.. really) Then a more solid historical marker can be used to demonstrate once again that government intervention ALWAYS makes things worse.

  10. Bill
    August 7, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Keep in mind I have no personal stake in seeing Obama’s plan come to fruition. I have great health insurance now. I’ve had great health insurance for a number of years. What cheeses me off, though, is that I have worked hard and gotten this great insurance–and now the righties say I have it too good and I should be dragged down with everyone else. In other words, their “solution” has been that coverage needs to be cut and my out-of-pocket and risk needs to increase–so that I too will have to do benefit spaghetti dinners if I use my insurance. Why? Because there are poor bastards who have it worse than you and we should force the market DOWN to that level. How hypocritical is that of “free market” people?

    That–and the incessant promotion that worker bees are THE problem–is why the right is squarely in my sights on this one. They have offered zilch except promote penis envy and stratification of citizens through in-fighting.

    • jgillman
      August 7, 2009 at 7:42 pm

      I don’t mind you having a decent plan. In fact if you perform a decent service and are reward properly for it, it is a part of the process. But if my understanding is correct, your plan is considerably more expensive than it would be if it wasn’t handled by your union, which adds a premium.

      But fair is fair. We cannot afford things the same as we did 8 years ago. Business owners (particularly small manufacturing shops) who took the brunt of the last tax increases in Michigan are walking away with a little less than the were able to before. In some cases a LOT less. We can assume they will be able to maintain that burden and cut other things that have importance to others people, or the hit can be spread all around. You have worked hard to get to your station in life, as any 70-80 hour a week business owner has too.

      FREE MARKETS would solve these issues. The long term results of business being allowed to keep more of its “seed corn” and deal with less government intrusions would allow the state to regrow and fully fund what is now being threatened; Education and Public safety.

      As to the worker bees comment.. I don’t have a problem with workers who want the best for themselves or their families. That is the free market premise. What I have a problem with, is that the negotiators who handle the worker bee’s affairs are purely self serving and all too often the worker bee is used to gin up support for the type of public official who rewards the organizers worst made plans.

      I don’t trust unions, but I do NOT oppose workers desires. Their goals hardly coincide.

  11. Bill
    August 8, 2009 at 8:15 am

    There is a crying need to be able to have a conversation about this important issue. The shouters (on both sides) will only be marginalized. Shouting down people doesn’t serve the democratic process–nor (if true) does using physical violence (as what happened to a conservative in st. louis the other day, apparently). Those tactics aren’t good no matter who does it.

  12. August 17, 2009 at 6:54 am

    Bill- who is “Big Med”? I looked it up online and couldn’t find a single company called that? Is this some paranoia induced illusion of yours that you use to explain the world since you don’t believe in God? If you mean the pharma companies, I think they cut a deal with your corrupt Democratic party to support the bill.

    The simple truth of this situation is that a lot of people out there sense, sometimes intellectually and sometimes with just a gut sense of what is going on, that this health care bill is an attack on their life, liberty, and property. They don’t like the taxpayer support for abortion or the ‘just die already to save money counsoling’, they don’t like the removal of choice and freedom, and they don’t know how it will be paid for (probably through raising taxes or fees, or inflation- either way out of their pocket). And a government that attacks life, liberty, and property is a tyranny, and they oppose tyranny. You don’t, apparently, for various reasons that you have.

    Elevate the debate Bill, instead of lowering it to your level. I don’t think you can though, because your arguments and views as to why Democrats are correct on this one are wrong.

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