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	<title>Comments on: Nero Slept While Rome Burned.</title>
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	<description>Ongoing discussion of how Michigan burdens its taxpayers as well as other Michigan Issues, Satire, and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: ns</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1170</link>
		<dc:creator>ns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1170</guid>
		<description>Senior citizen yes get social security, and medicade/medicare  but most of
them worked all there life and Money is taken out of there check every week
and pays for it so it is not free.  People that work payed into it, now there
are people who never worked and never put into that fund should not receive
it but our government has stoled that from the American taxpayer.  Healthcare
we can not Fund because it will destroy America.  Why does healthcare cost
so much if run by non-profit organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senior citizen yes get social security, and medicade/medicare  but most of<br />
them worked all there life and Money is taken out of there check every week<br />
and pays for it so it is not free.  People that work payed into it, now there<br />
are people who never worked and never put into that fund should not receive<br />
it but our government has stoled that from the American taxpayer.  Healthcare<br />
we can not Fund because it will destroy America.  Why does healthcare cost<br />
so much if run by non-profit organization.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1169</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1169</guid>
		<description>jgillman: I&#039;m with you there, but I believe the destruction of our state started with the Milliken. Engler brought us some respite but even he governed from a position of compromise. I don&#039;t believe you can compromise with liberals. I don&#039;t mind conceding a point to them philosophically or discussing how sensitive we could all be if only this were heaven where lions lie down with lambs, etc., but, when it comes to government and &quot;other people&#039;s money&quot;, you cannot give an inch. They believe that they are entitled to decide how limited resources are to be allocated. This is theft...but they cannot see it. Yet if they found someone stealing the lawn mower out of their garage, the call to 911 would be instantaneous...but it is OK to rob a working man of the ability to put his kids through college or retire to Texas and take up bass fishing.

The intellectual myopia of liberals is remarkable. It is like watching bumblebees fly.

BTW, if she did Tomb Raider they would be unwatchable. As it is they are boring, silicone notwithstanding. With Grandholm in there, it would be a prison sentance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jgillman: I&#8217;m with you there, but I believe the destruction of our state started with the Milliken. Engler brought us some respite but even he governed from a position of compromise. I don&#8217;t believe you can compromise with liberals. I don&#8217;t mind conceding a point to them philosophically or discussing how sensitive we could all be if only this were heaven where lions lie down with lambs, etc., but, when it comes to government and &#8220;other people&#8217;s money&#8221;, you cannot give an inch. They believe that they are entitled to decide how limited resources are to be allocated. This is theft&#8230;but they cannot see it. Yet if they found someone stealing the lawn mower out of their garage, the call to 911 would be instantaneous&#8230;but it is OK to rob a working man of the ability to put his kids through college or retire to Texas and take up bass fishing.</p>
<p>The intellectual myopia of liberals is remarkable. It is like watching bumblebees fly.</p>
<p>BTW, if she did Tomb Raider they would be unwatchable. As it is they are boring, silicone notwithstanding. With Grandholm in there, it would be a prison sentance.</p>
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		<title>By: jgillman</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1168</link>
		<dc:creator>jgillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1168</guid>
		<description>See I would give at least Granholm and Levin a little credit, and say that they DO in fact have influence..

The problem is that they use it to forward policy that has destroyed the state.  And even Stabenow can be counted on to sign on the dotted lines when the craziest of bills comes up.  She is just not so bright in my estimation.  Levin on the other hand does whatever is necessary to maintain the 30 plus years of seat warming through interest funded re-elections.  I believe he understands the damage that he signs on to, and continues to plod forward..

Granholm? hmm..  not sure if she is evil or just plain insipid..  the jury is out in my mind.  I would suspect the latter..  I also think she wishes it was HER who did the Tomb Raider series..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See I would give at least Granholm and Levin a little credit, and say that they DO in fact have influence..</p>
<p>The problem is that they use it to forward policy that has destroyed the state.  And even Stabenow can be counted on to sign on the dotted lines when the craziest of bills comes up.  She is just not so bright in my estimation.  Levin on the other hand does whatever is necessary to maintain the 30 plus years of seat warming through interest funded re-elections.  I believe he understands the damage that he signs on to, and continues to plod forward..</p>
<p>Granholm? hmm..  not sure if she is evil or just plain insipid..  the jury is out in my mind.  I would suspect the latter..  I also think she wishes it was HER who did the Tomb Raider series..</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1167</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1167</guid>
		<description>The issue is not whether Levin or Stabenow were present but that fact that both are powerless.

Levin and Stabenow do not have the respect of their peers in Washington. As a result, they have no power. They have the APPEARANCE of power but not ACTUAL power. Their votes are not courted beyond the perfunctory, routine, Democratic party courting. Their opinions are ignored, their &quot;support&quot; is irrelevant, their credibility is non-existent. They are like the guy at the party that everyone walks away from. They posture and pontificate but it means nothing to anyone who actually DOES have power.

This is the reason they accomplish nothing for Michigan. This is the reason Michigan, despite our economic disaster-area status, is STILL a net contributor of federal taxes. We pay more into federal tax at all levels than we receive in benefits of any type. Go figure that one out - how we can be dead last economically but not be worthy of help. The reason we do not get help is our senators are powerless.

The same is true for most of our House reps. Most of them are ignored or actively marginalized. This is what we get for voting people into office that lack the necessary intelligence, education, will, and energy. You can&#039;t play major league ball with the B team.

Personally, I can&#039;t stand Ted Kennedy but there is no doubt in anyone&#039;s mind how much power he wields in the Senate. If we want Michigan to get the kind of federal money that Massachusetts receives, we need to elect a man the equal of Kennedy - and I don&#039;t mean his equal morally, spiritually, or even as a man. I mean his equal in power, in the ability to carry and swing a very big stick and the will to bash heads with it. Kennedy is a slug...but he&#039;s a powerful slug.

BTW, this is also the reason Grandholm is unable to be an engine of change. She has no influence, no power, no credibility, and is not respected because she appears to be silly. All she can do is interfere and waste money but the people with genuine power know her days are numbered so she is safely ignored. If she puts a call into the CEO of Ford, the call is not returned. If she calls the CEO of Dow Chemical, he is gone for the day. Nobody in a position of power needs to curry favor with Grandholm. They will go through the motions of respect, even talk a good game on TV...but the Respect is not there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is not whether Levin or Stabenow were present but that fact that both are powerless.</p>
<p>Levin and Stabenow do not have the respect of their peers in Washington. As a result, they have no power. They have the APPEARANCE of power but not ACTUAL power. Their votes are not courted beyond the perfunctory, routine, Democratic party courting. Their opinions are ignored, their &#8220;support&#8221; is irrelevant, their credibility is non-existent. They are like the guy at the party that everyone walks away from. They posture and pontificate but it means nothing to anyone who actually DOES have power.</p>
<p>This is the reason they accomplish nothing for Michigan. This is the reason Michigan, despite our economic disaster-area status, is STILL a net contributor of federal taxes. We pay more into federal tax at all levels than we receive in benefits of any type. Go figure that one out &#8211; how we can be dead last economically but not be worthy of help. The reason we do not get help is our senators are powerless.</p>
<p>The same is true for most of our House reps. Most of them are ignored or actively marginalized. This is what we get for voting people into office that lack the necessary intelligence, education, will, and energy. You can&#8217;t play major league ball with the B team.</p>
<p>Personally, I can&#8217;t stand Ted Kennedy but there is no doubt in anyone&#8217;s mind how much power he wields in the Senate. If we want Michigan to get the kind of federal money that Massachusetts receives, we need to elect a man the equal of Kennedy &#8211; and I don&#8217;t mean his equal morally, spiritually, or even as a man. I mean his equal in power, in the ability to carry and swing a very big stick and the will to bash heads with it. Kennedy is a slug&#8230;but he&#8217;s a powerful slug.</p>
<p>BTW, this is also the reason Grandholm is unable to be an engine of change. She has no influence, no power, no credibility, and is not respected because she appears to be silly. All she can do is interfere and waste money but the people with genuine power know her days are numbered so she is safely ignored. If she puts a call into the CEO of Ford, the call is not returned. If she calls the CEO of Dow Chemical, he is gone for the day. Nobody in a position of power needs to curry favor with Grandholm. They will go through the motions of respect, even talk a good game on TV&#8230;but the Respect is not there.</p>
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		<title>By: jgillman</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1166</link>
		<dc:creator>jgillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1166</guid>
		<description>I am aware, yet have not had time yet to look at Armey&#039;s statements, but as a historical note, I suspect you have applied a certain slant and are presenting his words out of context. Done from both sides politically, yet as always hardly productive.  Ill take a look at some point.

But I should ask you.. do you WANT socialism? yes or no?  you seem to have a desire to paint many Republicans in some sort of hypocritical brush instead of advocating a position strongly.  In other words, why simply attempt to tear down the opposition?  Why not try to elevate your positions with&lt;strong&gt; logic and reason?&lt;/strong&gt; what is it YOU want, and how does it help overall?  It would be more productive, and maybe some common ground could be found.

In all sincerity, I doubt that YOU want hard times for the country, and I would lay odds that you probably don&#039;t really think I want hard times for the country, so ultimately, where we diverge, is in the policy that brings about the best results correct? Or am I making a poor assumption?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am aware, yet have not had time yet to look at Armey&#8217;s statements, but as a historical note, I suspect you have applied a certain slant and are presenting his words out of context. Done from both sides politically, yet as always hardly productive.  Ill take a look at some point.</p>
<p>But I should ask you.. do you WANT socialism? yes or no?  you seem to have a desire to paint many Republicans in some sort of hypocritical brush instead of advocating a position strongly.  In other words, why simply attempt to tear down the opposition?  Why not try to elevate your positions with<strong> logic and reason?</strong> what is it YOU want, and how does it help overall?  It would be more productive, and maybe some common ground could be found.</p>
<p>In all sincerity, I doubt that YOU want hard times for the country, and I would lay odds that you probably don&#8217;t really think I want hard times for the country, so ultimately, where we diverge, is in the policy that brings about the best results correct? Or am I making a poor assumption?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1165</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1165</guid>
		<description>well, i got a pair of pants from kmart for my graduation gift and a pat on the back from dad who said &quot;you&#039;re an adult now, go out there and get it.&quot;

and to think he voted democrat ;)

anyway. i see the talking point now being expressed by armey, franz, etc. is that obama is trying to take away your medicare. i have to admit the audacity of the right is rather brilliant. how they go overnight from an &quot;obama is socialist pinko who is trying to lead us down the path to socialism&quot; to &quot;obama is trying to take away your socialist medicare&quot; ANd be successful with that message within their base is rhetorically and socially uttery fascinating to me.

i don&#039;t know whether to laugh or cry, make fun of such nonsense or be frightened for our country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, i got a pair of pants from kmart for my graduation gift and a pat on the back from dad who said &#8220;you&#8217;re an adult now, go out there and get it.&#8221;</p>
<p>and to think he voted democrat <img src='http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>anyway. i see the talking point now being expressed by armey, franz, etc. is that obama is trying to take away your medicare. i have to admit the audacity of the right is rather brilliant. how they go overnight from an &#8220;obama is socialist pinko who is trying to lead us down the path to socialism&#8221; to &#8220;obama is trying to take away your socialist medicare&#8221; ANd be successful with that message within their base is rhetorically and socially uttery fascinating to me.</p>
<p>i don&#8217;t know whether to laugh or cry, make fun of such nonsense or be frightened for our country.</p>
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		<title>By: jgillman</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1164</link>
		<dc:creator>jgillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1164</guid>
		<description>I did express the sentiment that I was sure your family was as capable as necessary. So as for judgment, there was none, merely an observation that if they indeed accepted and trained their offspring to expect government intervention, it is a sad truth that cannot be undone.  It hardly means laziness however, and to suggest my thoughts on such matters I would recommend you get to know me better, or save such postulation for a time when its relevant..  If someone offers me $10, I will take that $10. Simply put, a path of least resistance will ALWAYS be followed.

As for my college expenses, glad you are concerned..  I had a little help in my first year from my parents, Used high school graduation gifts, and wound up working three jobs ultimately to make it work.  I was tired, but maintained good grades, and had to extend my degree a year.  I was glad to have the initial help, and appreciated my education more for the efforts made to purchase it.  How about you?  Curiosity compels me to ask..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did express the sentiment that I was sure your family was as capable as necessary. So as for judgment, there was none, merely an observation that if they indeed accepted and trained their offspring to expect government intervention, it is a sad truth that cannot be undone.  It hardly means laziness however, and to suggest my thoughts on such matters I would recommend you get to know me better, or save such postulation for a time when its relevant..  If someone offers me $10, I will take that $10. Simply put, a path of least resistance will ALWAYS be followed.</p>
<p>As for my college expenses, glad you are concerned..  I had a little help in my first year from my parents, Used high school graduation gifts, and wound up working three jobs ultimately to make it work.  I was tired, but maintained good grades, and had to extend my degree a year.  I was glad to have the initial help, and appreciated my education more for the efforts made to purchase it.  How about you?  Curiosity compels me to ask..</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1163</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1163</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you know my family so well as to pass judgment. My grandfather worked in the woods cutting pulp well into his 70s. My grandmother saved burlap bags to make underwear during the depression. It was a tad more dire than you flippant dismissal of it. But then again, how would someone who hasn&#039;t even known a world without MTV know that?

My family&#039;s resourcefulness during that time fascinates me. Even so, they were damn glad to get help. But in your binary world, that must mean they&#039;re lazy. I can guarantee you your family gladly took the help as well. Guaranteed (the macho stories of them bettering themselves over everyone else aside). And I guarantee your family hasn&#039;t burned social security checks. Or refused to buy subsidized food products.

And you? How did you get through college? Mom and dad? Uncle Sam? Both? What handouts did you get along the way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you know my family so well as to pass judgment. My grandfather worked in the woods cutting pulp well into his 70s. My grandmother saved burlap bags to make underwear during the depression. It was a tad more dire than you flippant dismissal of it. But then again, how would someone who hasn&#8217;t even known a world without MTV know that?</p>
<p>My family&#8217;s resourcefulness during that time fascinates me. Even so, they were damn glad to get help. But in your binary world, that must mean they&#8217;re lazy. I can guarantee you your family gladly took the help as well. Guaranteed (the macho stories of them bettering themselves over everyone else aside). And I guarantee your family hasn&#8217;t burned social security checks. Or refused to buy subsidized food products.</p>
<p>And you? How did you get through college? Mom and dad? Uncle Sam? Both? What handouts did you get along the way?</p>
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		<title>By: jgillman</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1162</link>
		<dc:creator>jgillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1162</guid>
		<description>I doubt your family members were going to starve sans a federal build up under FDR.  So we will continue to disagree on that point.

I know MY family was &lt;strong&gt;resourceful &lt;/strong&gt;enough to overcome it as the parts I am familiar with did so with solid traditional skills such as plumbing, building, and farming.  I imagine yours was as well, but un-ringing the bell is impossible at this point so there is no way for you to unlearn the lesson of government dependence I suppose.

The public option is bad policy.  We hardly need to expand government into what should be a competitive market period.  The logic used for the public option is that it provides competitive forces.  OK..  then allow cross state insurance with no limits by government.  The use of ALA-CART insurance options would bring vitality to the market, and simply enforcing contracts (which under this Administration is a FAIL) through law would make sure no one is abused.

Ill take the anything else option.. call it what you will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt your family members were going to starve sans a federal build up under FDR.  So we will continue to disagree on that point.</p>
<p>I know MY family was <strong>resourceful </strong>enough to overcome it as the parts I am familiar with did so with solid traditional skills such as plumbing, building, and farming.  I imagine yours was as well, but un-ringing the bell is impossible at this point so there is no way for you to unlearn the lesson of government dependence I suppose.</p>
<p>The public option is bad policy.  We hardly need to expand government into what should be a competitive market period.  The logic used for the public option is that it provides competitive forces.  OK..  then allow cross state insurance with no limits by government.  The use of ALA-CART insurance options would bring vitality to the market, and simply enforcing contracts (which under this Administration is a FAIL) through law would make sure no one is abused.</p>
<p>Ill take the anything else option.. call it what you will.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/08/nero-slept-while-rome-burned/comment-page-1/#comment-1161</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2797#comment-1161</guid>
		<description>Well, we have philosophical differences. I&#039;m an FDR fan. His CCC program kept some of my family members from starving to death 70 years ago (and probably some of yours). I hope Obama is as good as FDR was, but I don&#039;t sense he has the resolve that FDR had. Hopefully, Obama will start drawing lines in the sand.

There can be no meaningful health care reform without a public option. Anything else is just window dressing and petty appeasement and won&#039;t have any effect on long-term costs in this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we have philosophical differences. I&#8217;m an FDR fan. His CCC program kept some of my family members from starving to death 70 years ago (and probably some of yours). I hope Obama is as good as FDR was, but I don&#8217;t sense he has the resolve that FDR had. Hopefully, Obama will start drawing lines in the sand.</p>
<p>There can be no meaningful health care reform without a public option. Anything else is just window dressing and petty appeasement and won&#8217;t have any effect on long-term costs in this country.</p>
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