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	<title>Comments on: Michigan Education Association Opposes Obamacare</title>
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	<description>Ongoing discussion of how Michigan burdens its taxpayers as well as other Michigan Issues, Satire, and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: More On School Employee &#8230;Perks &#171; Michigan Taxes Too Much</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-998</link>
		<dc:creator>More On School Employee &#8230;Perks &#171; Michigan Taxes Too Much</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-998</guid>
		<description>[...] Michigan Education Association Opposes Obamacare [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michigan Education Association Opposes Obamacare [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jgillman</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator>jgillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-997</guid>
		<description>Actually the MEA said NOTHING about or to the Right.. it was directed specifically at Dillons comments.  The forked tongues at the MEA wants to have its cake and eat it too.

The &quot;entities&quot; I support are the individuals whom see their rights squashed quite readily with the assistance of the compulsive union membership in a non right to work state such as Michigan.  You keep trying to lump me in with all whom you oppose.

You assume too much.  I have been pretty clear on my stands to particular issues, the role of government, and the danger to our way of life with its unchecked growth.

And finally.. &lt;strong&gt;Unions do NO GOOD&lt;/strong&gt; for working families if they put them out of a job with an all or (and) nothing approach.  They do no good if they foist unbearable government mandates on the very employers who are gracious enough to offer employment.  They HARM our liberties by helping to elect Statists, Fascists, Marxists, or Socialists to all levels of government.

You can pretend all you like that They have raised the middle class living standards through the years. You can cry foul to the manufacturers who might have been &quot;oppressive subjugators of the proletariat,&quot; and claim that without the unions we would all be slaves to the &quot;elite&quot; business class..  But you then forget who has really been in charge for the last 40 years in manufacturing, electing our leadership and the failures they have brought to the table, now mire the state in an &quot;official&quot; unemployment figure of 15.2% with a suspected real count at 25%.

What you and others like you cannot fathom, is that individuals can do FAR BETTER if allowed to negotiate their own way.  People thrive when left alone. They make successes and they make mistakes to be learned from. Each one they own by themselves.  When GOVERNMENT plans, it is not often as successful as intended, in fact is nearly ALWAYS WRONG, yet their mistakes affect more than a mere individual.

You words of my hypocrisy ring hollow.  You haven&#039;t a clue of what YOU are saying much less what I am.  I truly hope you are merely an art teacher or something relatively non damaging to the rest of the upcoming minds of mush.  God help us if you teach ANYTHING related to public policy.

Don&#039;t bother responding to this..  Consider it a last word on the subject, and save the whining about censorship and start your own blog..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the MEA said NOTHING about or to the Right.. it was directed specifically at Dillons comments.  The forked tongues at the MEA wants to have its cake and eat it too.</p>
<p>The &#8220;entities&#8221; I support are the individuals whom see their rights squashed quite readily with the assistance of the compulsive union membership in a non right to work state such as Michigan.  You keep trying to lump me in with all whom you oppose.</p>
<p>You assume too much.  I have been pretty clear on my stands to particular issues, the role of government, and the danger to our way of life with its unchecked growth.</p>
<p>And finally.. <strong>Unions do NO GOOD</strong> for working families if they put them out of a job with an all or (and) nothing approach.  They do no good if they foist unbearable government mandates on the very employers who are gracious enough to offer employment.  They HARM our liberties by helping to elect Statists, Fascists, Marxists, or Socialists to all levels of government.</p>
<p>You can pretend all you like that They have raised the middle class living standards through the years. You can cry foul to the manufacturers who might have been &#8220;oppressive subjugators of the proletariat,&#8221; and claim that without the unions we would all be slaves to the &#8220;elite&#8221; business class..  But you then forget who has really been in charge for the last 40 years in manufacturing, electing our leadership and the failures they have brought to the table, now mire the state in an &#8220;official&#8221; unemployment figure of 15.2% with a suspected real count at 25%.</p>
<p>What you and others like you cannot fathom, is that individuals can do FAR BETTER if allowed to negotiate their own way.  People thrive when left alone. They make successes and they make mistakes to be learned from. Each one they own by themselves.  When GOVERNMENT plans, it is not often as successful as intended, in fact is nearly ALWAYS WRONG, yet their mistakes affect more than a mere individual.</p>
<p>You words of my hypocrisy ring hollow.  You haven&#8217;t a clue of what YOU are saying much less what I am.  I truly hope you are merely an art teacher or something relatively non damaging to the rest of the upcoming minds of mush.  God help us if you teach ANYTHING related to public policy.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t bother responding to this..  Consider it a last word on the subject, and save the whining about censorship and start your own blog..</p>
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		<title>By: jgillman</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-996</link>
		<dc:creator>jgillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-996</guid>
		<description>Talking to the wrong guy on that..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talking to the wrong guy on that..</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-995</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-995</guid>
		<description>And I&#039;m still waiting to see the &quot;promised&quot; tens and hundreds of millions in savings PA 106 was supposed to bring the state. It&#039;s been two years. Where are the savings? PA 106 has COST the state money, not saved any.

Where are the righty blogs and their updates about that? Man, you all were posting big-time about it two years ago. Well?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I&#8217;m still waiting to see the &#8220;promised&#8221; tens and hundreds of millions in savings PA 106 was supposed to bring the state. It&#8217;s been two years. Where are the savings? PA 106 has COST the state money, not saved any.</p>
<p>Where are the righty blogs and their updates about that? Man, you all were posting big-time about it two years ago. Well?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-994</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-994</guid>
		<description>I think the MEA was pointing out the irony of the Right supporting such a plan. Look: there&#039;s irony on both sides of this, no? I don&#039;t know where the MEA stands on Obama&#039;s plan. Then again, I don&#039;t wait for them to tell me how to think about the plan. I like it. I&#039;m in favor. The overall good the union does for working families outweighs any area(s) where I might disagree with them. I&#039;m sure you have similar feelings for the entities you support on your side of the fence.

The &quot;stinging hypocrisy&quot; works both ways here, Gillman. Especially with you ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the MEA was pointing out the irony of the Right supporting such a plan. Look: there&#8217;s irony on both sides of this, no? I don&#8217;t know where the MEA stands on Obama&#8217;s plan. Then again, I don&#8217;t wait for them to tell me how to think about the plan. I like it. I&#8217;m in favor. The overall good the union does for working families outweighs any area(s) where I might disagree with them. I&#8217;m sure you have similar feelings for the entities you support on your side of the fence.</p>
<p>The &#8220;stinging hypocrisy&#8221; works both ways here, Gillman. Especially with you <img src='http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: jgillman</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-993</link>
		<dc:creator>jgillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-993</guid>
		<description>Correction noted.

So moving on..
I&#039;m hardly a &quot;pistol toting guy.&quot;  I am a 2nd Amendment supporter, but a reluctant gun owner beyond my hunting rifle.
Then..  If the MEA were a locally organized group of local taxpaying, concerned citizens, you MIGHT have a point. They are not.
Then there are the &quot;empty words..&quot;  Dillon did the state a favor by bringing up the stinging hypocrisy of the MEA..  Plain and simple.  Quoted: &quot;a massive expansion of government at a time when we can’t even get the budget balanced.&quot; Not MY words.. So whom might actually have the empty words?  Or Is the MEA actually positing the OBAMA plan is BAD?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction noted.</p>
<p>So moving on..<br />
I&#8217;m hardly a &#8220;pistol toting guy.&#8221;  I am a 2nd Amendment supporter, but a reluctant gun owner beyond my hunting rifle.<br />
Then..  If the MEA were a locally organized group of local taxpaying, concerned citizens, you MIGHT have a point. They are not.<br />
Then there are the &#8220;empty words..&#8221;  Dillon did the state a favor by bringing up the stinging hypocrisy of the MEA..  Plain and simple.  Quoted: &#8220;a massive expansion of government at a time when we can’t even get the budget balanced.&#8221; Not MY words.. So whom might actually have the empty words?  Or Is the MEA actually positing the OBAMA plan is BAD?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-992</guid>
		<description>...previous message first sentence should read &quot;...WOULDN&#039;T be running the system.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;previous message first sentence should read &#8220;&#8230;WOULDN&#8217;T be running the system.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-991</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-991</guid>
		<description>Except the taxpayers would be running this system. A centralized government bureaucracy would--taking local control away from taxpayers. Surely a pistol-toting guy like you (fellow gun owner here too), who has groused repeatedly about your local, small security business getting the shaft from Big Brother in Lansing wouldn&#039;t be in favor of such nonsense? ;)

Come, now.

But your side is finally starting to wake up on this one and understand Dillon&#039;s empty words on this subject were nothing but a mechanism to trojan-horse in other tax increases. I mean, I&#039;m surprised it took you all about a week to start saying &quot;hey, wait a minute...&quot; but you are starting to slowly come around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except the taxpayers would be running this system. A centralized government bureaucracy would&#8211;taking local control away from taxpayers. Surely a pistol-toting guy like you (fellow gun owner here too), who has groused repeatedly about your local, small security business getting the shaft from Big Brother in Lansing wouldn&#8217;t be in favor of such nonsense? <img src='http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Come, now.</p>
<p>But your side is finally starting to wake up on this one and understand Dillon&#8217;s empty words on this subject were nothing but a mechanism to trojan-horse in other tax increases. I mean, I&#8217;m surprised it took you all about a week to start saying &#8220;hey, wait a minute&#8230;&#8221; but you are starting to slowly come around.</p>
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		<title>By: jgillman</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator>jgillman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-990</guid>
		<description>See.. this is where you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the situation is.

The Obama plan straight out Mandates coverage, eliminates CHOICE if you are not currently covered, and creates a unfundable bureaucracy that MUST reduce the quality of care if there will be ANY at all. Here is the Kicker.. Obama&#039;s plan affects ALL people.. not those who work for the government.

Government employees work for the taxpayer.. yes.. or no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See.. this is where you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the situation is.</p>
<p>The Obama plan straight out Mandates coverage, eliminates CHOICE if you are not currently covered, and creates a unfundable bureaucracy that MUST reduce the quality of care if there will be ANY at all. Here is the Kicker.. Obama&#8217;s plan affects ALL people.. not those who work for the government.</p>
<p>Government employees work for the taxpayer.. yes.. or no?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2009/07/michigan-education-association-opposes-obamacare/comment-page-1/#comment-989</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/?p=2603#comment-989</guid>
		<description>Obama feels government intervention will save money. Drolet feels government intervention will save money.

I&#039;m going to take a wild guess that you don&#039;t believe BOTH ;)

Again, you&#039;re choosing sides and going against your very principles simply because you perceive one plan to be harmful to unions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama feels government intervention will save money. Drolet feels government intervention will save money.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to take a wild guess that you don&#8217;t believe BOTH <img src='http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Again, you&#8217;re choosing sides and going against your very principles simply because you perceive one plan to be harmful to unions.</p>
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